Plus why most of us spend more time planning a one-week vacation than the rest of our lives
In this episode, authors Mark Batterson (Win the Day and Do it for a Day) and Jordan Raynor (Redeeming Your Time) discuss:
Want to go deeper on these topics? Pick-up a copy of Mark's books (Win the Day and Do it for a Day) and Jordan's (Redeeming Your Time).
Download Mark's "7 Steps to Setting Life Goals" + his 100 personal life goals here
[00:00:11] JR: Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Redeem the Day Podcast, a seven-episode series aimed at helping you be more purposeful, present, and productive. I'm Jordan Raynor, author of Redeeming Your Time, and I'm joined by Mark Batterson, author of Do It for a Day and Win the Day.
In this episode, we're going to cover a lot of ground. We're going to talk about why many of us spend more time, in Mark's words, planning a one-week vacation than we do the rest of our lives. We're going to talk about why Christians should be marked by the epic size of our goals and how practically we can set bigger, more God-sized goals.
So, Mark, I want to start here. I loved this line in your book, Win the Day. It was really convicting to me. You said, “Most of us don't get what we want because we don't really know what we want. We spend more time planning a one-week vacation than the rest of our lives.” Why is this? You’re a pastor. You've coached people this. Why do you think this is the case?
[00:01:15] MB: Well, it's funny. As you say that, I immediately think of Blaise Pascal, who said that we have this tendency to turn nothing into eternity and eternity into nothing. It's almost out of sight, out of mind. So we don't give a whole lot of thought to, hey, where do we want to be 16 years from now professionally or relationally? We're just so locked into the moment and we have such a hard time keeping up with daily activities sometimes that, wow, we rob from our future to pay the present. I don't think that's doing anybody any favors. I want to make sure, Jordan. I don't want to offend any travel agent out there because those one-week vacations are important. But, hey, let's also spend some time on those life goals.
[00:02:10] JR: All right, I’m going to throw something in here. I want to get your take on it. Are you a fan of the Marvel movies, superhero movies, stuff like that?
[00:02:18] MB: Yeah.
[00:02:19] JR: Okay. I'm a casual fan. I wouldn't call myself a fan but like whatever. I think I've been fascinated by how popular these movies have become over the last few years. We are so obsessed with watching and consuming the epic that we forget that like we, as Christ followers, have been called into the epic, right? Like we are meant to be a part of the biggest, grandest, most epic story in the world, but we forget what we talked about in episode one, Ephesians 2:10. We've been saved for good works. Does that resonate with you?
[00:02:58] MB: It does. I have a mantra that has been sort of a guiding rule for me for many, many years. Don't accumulate possessions. Accumulate experiences. For the record, I haven't met too many people possessed by a demon, but I've met a lot of people who are possessed by their possessions. They don't own things. Those things own them. We're all about accumulating things. I'm a big believer, Jordan, in accumulating experiences. So one of the things that life goals does is it lets you, well, in the words of Hebrews 11, be sure of what you hope for, and you start looking for those experiences that are going to be significant to your life. So whether it's biking a century, which I did about a month or two ago –
[00:03:49] JR: That’s awesome.
[00:03:49] MB: Or hiking the Grand Canyon rim to rim or these experiences that create memories that you will cherish forever. By the way, the key to that, the key is to include people in those goals. It's a lot more fun accomplishing things when it's with people that you love and it has a relational component to it. But I think we've got to accumulate experiences.
[00:04:17] JR: You’ve written before that bold prayers and goals, by extension I think here, honor God. How so? How do you think bold prayers, bold goals honor the Lord?
[00:04:29] MB: Well, show me the size of your dream. I'll show you the size of your God. I think far too often, we dream things that are just at the outskirts of our ability. I would argue that that ability’s God-given. So in that sense, you're honoring God with what He's given to you. But I think God wants to do things that are beyond our ability, beyond our intellect, beyond our resources so that we don't take any credit for it, and God gets all of the glory.
There’s something about going after a God-sized dream that keeps you on your knees, and I would even argue, the bigger the dream, the more you have to pray. The more you pray, the bigger the dream gets, and it becomes a virtuous cycle in your life.
[00:05:14] JR: In Redeeming Your Time, I wrote about these five reasons why I think we as Christ followers should be setting the biggest goals on the planet. I’ll just quickly kind of share these with our listeners. First, and you've kind of already alluded to this, Mark, Ephesians 3:20 makes this crystal clear. God has the power to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine. It doesn't mean He will, right? This is not the prosperity gospel. This is not naming and claiming theology, but He is able to. I don't think our goals reflect that that's true most of the time, right?
Number, two big goals, in my experience, are easier to achieve than small goals. I mentioned I spent a little bit of time in DC. During my time in DC, I did an internship at the Bush White House. What’s funny, looking back on that experience, my fellow public relations students at Florida State, they were all competing for the same five internships in Tallahassee, right? At the same PR firms, whatever. I was like, “You know what? I think I’d get an internship at the White House,” and I got it. I got up there and I thought, “Oh, man. These people are going to be so much smarter than my colleagues at Florida State.” Guess what? They weren't at all. They were just more audacious, right?
I think this is like – I'm curious if you've experienced this. There’s this weird paradox. Because everybody aims for average-sized goals, the level of competition sometimes decreases as the size of your goal increases. Have you ever seen this at play in the real world, Mark?
[00:06:50] MB: Yeah, absolutely. There's something about – Jordan, it’s go big or go home, right? I would say that with smaller goals, yeah, we tend to lose interest. Well, there's this concept of desirable difficulty, where if something is too easy, we get bored. If something's too hard, we give up. It's almost like the Goldilocks zone, that what we need are things that are just beyond our ability, that stretch us. I think those big goals have a way of doing that, even more than those small goals.
[00:07:32] JR: Yeah. So that brings me to the third item on my list. That's a perfect segue. Big goals, in my experience, make it easier to say no to non-essential requests for our time, right? Because when your goals are small, you just don't care about them, right? So you're just like, “Yeah, whatever.” I'll say yes to everything, right? Number four, big goals recruit others to your cause. Then lastly, Christ followers ought to be known for taking big swings because we can't fail entirely. Even if we do fail at reaching our goal, at the end of the day, we have Christ. We’re adopted children of the King, and that's our foundational security. Mark, anything you want to add to that list or comment on in that list?
[00:08:14] MB: Well, our first attempt at church planting was a fail, and it was terrible at the time, Jordan. It was embarrassing. Compass needle was spinning but learned a very valuable lesson that the cure for the fear of failure is not success. I think it's failure in small enough doses that you build up an immunity to it, and you realize that God is there to pick you up, dust you off, and give you a second chance. So I would just add a yes and amen to that last one.
[00:08:44] JR: I spent the first 10 years of my career as a tech entrepreneur, so I can say a hearty amen to everything you just said. I'm curious for you, when the first church plant failed, how long did it take you to admit that it had failed?
[00:08:57] MB: Well, we were about nine months into it and we just had this sense that a few things imploded on us. Sometimes, it's the right thing but it's the wrong time or the wrong place. Let's be honest, Jordan. I was 22 years old, and it's amazing how much you know at 22. You have almost everything figured out. My apologies to all of the 22-year-olds listening to the podcast, but I needed to be humbled. I had to learn a few things. But I genuinely look back on it, and what I've discovered is that 9 times out of 10, success is well-managed failure. It's how you respond to the failure, how you steward it, the lessons you learned, and it actually can be a stepping stone to whatever it is that God wants to do in you and through you.
[00:09:51] JR: That doesn't always mean that God has something better for us in store by our standards, but Romans 8:28 promises us that in success or failure, He's All things for our good, which, as Paul says in Romans 8:29, is not the good of our circumstances. This is our sanctification, right? It's becoming more like Christ. We can rest in that right? That's a beautiful thing.
Hey, I loved that in Win the Day, you shared some just super practical tips for setting bigger goals, big, hairy, audacious life goals. I'm curious if you remember these seven steps. I'm sure you do. And if you can share them with us because they’re just so good, I want our listeners to hear all of them.
[00:10:34] MB: Yeah, that's funny. Let's be honest, both of us have written a book or two or three. And sometimes you can forget.
[00:10:42] JR: Hang on one second. Quick like a quick sidetrack, because this is funny to me, because I don't think people realize this with authors. They assume that we know our content better than anybody else. It's like I hear actors talk about this all the time. They're like, “Oh, yeah. My fans remember all of the episodes of my show way more than I do, right? Because they watched it 100 times and I watched it once 20 years ago. So anyways, but it sounds like you do remember these seven steps to setting bigger goals. So share them with us.
[00:11:12] MB: Yeah, I absolutely remember the first one and the seventh one because they're the same. You start with prayer and end with prayer. But yes, start with prayer. I think you want to make sure they honor God. Check your motives. I've had a few goals that in the long run I'd probably be better off not accomplishing because the motives were wrong. I think you want to think in categories. And this is a process that, Jordan, would be available on my website. It's a free download along with the 100 life goals that I have. So it might be helpful for someone to sit down and kind of work through it. But I have financial goals, relational goals that you think in categories. You make it measurable. This is pretty key, because otherwise you don't know if you accomplished it. You write it down. And that's an important piece. You add a relational element. And this one's big.
[00:12:09] JR: Yeah, you were talking about this a minute ago. Yeah, this is good.
[00:12:12] MB: Yeah. Instead of just doing a triathlon, why not do it with my son who's turning 13 years old and we can cross the finish line together after training together? That makes it so much more meaningful. And so what I've tried to do is add those relational elements. I just did a bike century. But you know what? I did it because my oldest son loves to bike. And I knew it would be something that we could do together that he would love. And so that relational element is key.
And then finally, you have to celebrate along the way. You have to celebrate what you want to see more of including some of those goals that get accomplished. And that then provides motivation to continue to go after those goals. And so hopefully, it will help listeners come up with their own list. And it doesn't have to be 100 life goals. I think I started with maybe 30, 35 goals in my early 30s, Jordan. And then what I did is I just would continually add to it and occasionally subtract from it depending on the circumstance. And so yes, seven steps of setting life goals. And the key is, I think, starting with prayer, and then take it from there.
[00:13:29] JR: Yeah. So we will make sure to link to this to your seven steps and your 100 life goals in the show notes for this episode, because I think they're so good. Two things I love on your list. The relational element I think is so smart. And it aligns with a lot of data that shows that accountability, of course, increases our ability to reach our goals. I also love the measurable part. So again, I come from a background of tech startups. In the tech startup world, there's this goal setting framework that I really appreciate that was made famous by Google. It's called objectives and key results, or OKRs. And the idea is you want to have an objective defined that's really inspirational, and meaningful, and just fires up the team.
So for example, one of my objectives with my family – I set OKRs, both professionally and personally, one of my personal ones is inspire my kids to be fully engaged in God's mission for the world, right? And that's nice to say, but without measureable goals underneath that objective, it's kind of meaningless, right? And that's where the key results come in.
So for example, one of my key results with my kids this quarter has been helped the kids memorize the first 36 answers in the New City catechism, right? Another one is have the kids see my wife and I serving at least 10 poor people in our community, right? Like I want them to visually see those things. So making it nice measurable and setting goals that matter I think is really important. So you got 100 life goals. You just knocked out the centurion on the bike, which is amazing. What do you plan to knock out next? What's next on the list?
[00:15:13] MB: Some of them are kind of random fun. I want to spend a night in a tree house hotel, Jordan. I mean, I don't know that I need that to live a full and fulfilled life. But that's one that I think is actually on the horizon, which is kind of fun. And some of them they've happened multiple times back in the day, because I love sports. Man, wanted to speak at in NFL chapel. I'll do three or four chapels this year for different teams. And I've done dozens and dozens of chapels. But it doesn't get old to me even though that goal got checked off the list. It's still a unique opportunity for me to be able to continue to check off some of these goals multiple times.
[00:15:58] JR: You and I, I can't remember if we talked about this when you're a guest on my podcast, the Call to Mastery. But you and I share a goal of making a movie. I recently wrote a pilot for what will Lord willing be an eight episode biopic on the life of C.S. Lewis for TV. And you wrote this script? Remind me the guy's name?
[00:16:21] MB: Emil Zátopek.
[00:16:22] JR: An amazing story.
[00:16:23] MB: Yeah. And Jordan, I bet everybody who's listening right now, I've only met one person who immediately knew that name of knew who he was.
[00:16:32] JR: I can't believe you met one person who didn't?
[00:16:34] MB: Well, it’s because he was an Olympic runner. And so Emil Zátopek, according to Runner's World, greatest runner of all time at any distance, and no one knows his name. Won triple gold in the Helsinki Olympics. Incredible inspiration to me as I trained for and ran my first marathon. And we actually have a biopic on his life that I believe someday we'll see the silver screen. But it's one of those ones, Jordan, that watching movies doesn't qualify you to make one.
[00:17:09] JR: Okay. Yeah, go ahead. Keep going. No. No. Keep going.
[00:17:12] MB: Well, and it's just this idea that it is one of those big, hairy, audacious goals that it's going to take certainly a little bit a divine favor along the way.
[00:17:21] JR: Okay. And that's what I wanted people to see. You and I know nothing about the movie business.
[00:17:27] MB: Yes.
[00:17:27] JR: But we know that God is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine. And we believe in boasting in our weaknesses, right? We're taking a big swing saying, “Yeah, I know nothing about making a film.” But if God wants this project to happen, he'll make it happen. And if it doesn't, that's okay. And we could say blessed be the name of the Lord regardless of the results. Amen?
[00:17:49] MB: Yep. Yep, I love it.
[00:17:51] JR: I want to conclude with this idea that actually both of us quoted in some way, shape or form in Win the Day and Redeeming Your Time. One of the best pieces of truth I've ever heard regarding goals. I first heard it from Bill Gates. He said, “We overestimate what we can accomplish in a year. But we grossly underestimate what we can accomplish in 10 years.” And I would add, if God is for the goal, man, we really underestimate what can't be done. Amen, Mark?
[00:18:20] MB: Yeah, yeah, no doubt. There is linear progression. Simple addition, one plus one equals two. And there is exponential progression. It's compound doubling, two times two is four, four times four is 16. I would argue that faith is exponential. And it's planting these mustard seeds of faith. And you never know which one is going to move the mountain.
[00:18:47] JR: Guys, I'm praying that today's episode is inspiring you to set bigger goals not so that you can get a big promotion necessarily. Not so that you can earn more and have a bigger house. But because there is kingdom building work left to do in this world, and you want to be a part of it. And you believe that God has put you on this earth to set bigger goals to see heaven come to Earth. So I'm praying today's episode served you guys well.
Hey, up next, you're going to hear Mark and I talk about the most productive six-year streak of C.S. Lewis's life, and what that has to do with your ability today to do deep work and cultivate a deep life. We'll see you guys on episode four.
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